After our walk through the oasis at Tinghir, our driver Saeed picked us up in the van to take us to Todra Gorge. On the way, I put my hands over my shoulders on the back of my seat to stretch my back, and Father Anthony, sitting behind me, told me that by the look of my fingernails, I needed to take more calcium. I said I had a big container of calcium and vitamin D on the counter in my kitchen at home, but I always forgot to take it. He said if I didn’t start taking it, I was going to get osteoporosis. I said, “You’re talking to a brick wall, because if I don’t pay any attention to my doctor, why should I listen to you? You know, I don’t care much for unsolicited advice. One thing I’ve learned through the years is that you should mind your business and I should mind mine.” This is something I’ve learned the hard way in attending Al-Anon. He finally dropped the subject, but my traveling partner reiterated Anthony’s remarks, as if she were the arbiter of good health. As if my life were any of her business.
Why is it that people are such know-it-alls? And why do people feel compelled to offer advice when no one has asked for it? Don’t people know that to offer unwanted advice is making an assumption that the other person is incapable of making her own decisions? It’s an insult of the highest degree. If I go to my doctor, of course I am asking for her advice, and she’s right, I should take my calcium, but I forget and don’t have a routine for it, and so I don’t take it as I should. I already know this and am reminded of it every time I go to the doctor and get reprimanded. Every time I visit my dentist, my dental hygienist also reprimands me for not using a water pick. It’s the job of health professionals to give advice, and by my showing up at their offices, I am submitting to, and even asking for, their advice.
To have random people off the street give me advice on how to take care of my health, how to eat, how to drink, how I should dress, how I should behave, how I should love my family members – the list is endless – this is the ultimate insult, as if I don’t know these things myself. For whatever reason that is solely MY BUSINESS, I don’t do things as well, or as consistently, as I should. Or, alternately, I do them just the way I should. It is MY life and MY business, and no one else has any excuse for intruding.
The road from Tinghir passed palm plantations and Berber villages, then high walls of pink and gray rock closing in on the road. The gorge was lined with palm oases and ruined kasbahs.
We got dropped at Todra Gorge, which is a massive fault dividing the High Atlas from the Jebel Sarhho. At some points it is just wide enough for a crystal clear river and single-file trekkers.

Todra Gorge
I felt that Todra Gorge was nothing special, with a wide road alongside a river in a steep gorge, an abandoned hotel at one end, and various commercial vendors selling rugs, scarves, droopy-crotched colorful pants often seen throughout Asia, jewelry and musical instruments, notably small finger cymbals. A Berber man played a flute while Gabe from our group clicked a rhythm with the finger cymbals.

Todra Gorge
Abandoned buildings and terraces sat at one end of the gorge.

Todra Gorge

Todra Gorge
My traveling partner complained that the rock climbers all around weren’t properly outfitted with helmets and proper climbing shoes. I was so glad to learn, once again, her ideas about how other people should be behaving.

Todra Gorge

Todra Gorge

Todra Gorge
Back at the hotel, we sat in the dining area and were served the dinner we’d ordered earlier. I had a Moroccan soup with chick peas and a little vermicelli and a Berber omelette cooked in a tajine pot with tomatoes, onions and peppers. We also had a little pastry, multi-layered with white icing, chocolate drizzle and strawberries, along with sparkling water. I felt like I’d been eating way too much food on this entire trip.
I started teasing Father Anthony about the calcium. He said I’d already chewed him out once and he got it. He and Susan continued to press me that I should take calcium or I’d be sorry. I felt like they were on the attack. I said that luckily I am healthy and Anthony would probably be long gone before me (he’s 76 after all), and he and Susan said not necessarily, and they both agreed they knew absolutely about what a person should do to be healthy. I said, “You two are so judgmental!” The others in the group tried to distract us from the growing tension. Shortly, I got up and went up to the room, I was so pissed. Self-righteous people who think only their way is right annoy me to no end.
I could not wait to get out of this group, and I wished I had come alone on the group tour because then I could just wander off on my own without always ending up stuck with a person who seemed to rub me the wrong way at every turn.
*Monday, April 15, 2019*
It may not be anything special, Cathy, but I do like the rock formations and the way those buildings are dwarfed. 🙂 🙂
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It was a rather dark and short gorge, so not particularly memorable. But it was nice enough, I suppose. 🙂
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The gorge photos are impressive but I was transfixed by your issues with your travel companions. It has now almost caused an argument between my husband and myself! We have a difference of opinion on this! He is often very ‘right’ but has also some understanding now that there are different ways of being doing things. Some friends always remember our how to was up incident that caused tension. There are many people like this and some know when to stand back and others keep going. Perhaps sometimes it is just concern. But why worry? I have to stand back from my kids now they are grown up as they will jump down my throat! It’s often my worry about them.
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I know it’s very common to have these kinds of conflicts with people, Georgina. Believe, me, in the past I have been full of advice to my children as well, and they do not like or appreciate it one bit. That’s one thing I learned by going to Al-Anon, to “mind your own business.” Nobody’s business is my business, and my business is nobody else’s. I especially had to learn that with my son, and now, as much as I think he continues to make bad decisions, he doesn’t ask my opinion so I don’t give it. He never appreciates it anyway, and by my giving unwanted advice, it sends him the message he’s not capable of making decisions himself. My husband and I are both learning to keep our mouths shut, and just let our kids make their own mistakes, unless they ask specifically for our advice (and even then they don’t often take it!).
Thanks for your comment.
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Yes, it is quite a learning curve with our kids and then they begin to tell us what to do! It is hard but it is accepting each other as adults with our own choices and foibles,
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Ouch! When mine start telling me what to do, that won’t go over well!
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The gorge is similar to one in Zion Canyon where it narrows so that the only way through is by wading in the water. An interesting place and where there are a lot of climbers too. I find gorges a bit too gloomy for me, I hate being in an enclosed space. Your argument with your fellow travellers was much more interesting, I’m a bit like you in that I don’t like anyone telling me what to do, my mother and I had some major barnies when I was growing up. What puzzles me though is your relationship with Susan. Did you not know her well before you decided to do this holiday together? Other than my OH I have only ever travelled solo and I think that’s probably for the best. Even he and I can irritate each other when we are away and have no ‘me’ time.
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I haven’t yet been to Zion but hope to go in the next several years, Jude. I think I know of that narrow canyon you mention from Instagram photos. I explored many narrow gorges in Oman when I was there, and I agree, they do give you that claustrophobic feeling.
I hate it when people give advice (unless I ask for it); they assume they know better than you, which is very condescending. I had many arguments with my mother as well. And believe me, I’ve been butting my head against a wall by giving unwanted advice to my son, with no result except him often doing the opposite of whatever I’ve advised! We learned this concept of minding your own business in Al-Anon, and it really struck a chord. I realized I hated people giving me advice, but it had never hit me that others might resent the advice I gave them! We are slow to learn sometimes.
As for Susan, I didn’t know her that well, and you know travel is an immersion from which there is no escape. I met her randomly on a hike here in Virginia when I was training for the Camino. She had done it and was great at answering all my questions about the Camino and sharing her own experience (ASKED-FOR advice!). I only knew her through the times we met while I was preparing for the Camino, and then after the Camino to compare notes. I thought she and I would be simpatico, but it just wasn’t the case. This is why I also like to travel solo, or with Mike. And Mike used to be full of unwanted advice to me until our 7-year separation. We had many talks before our reconciliation about his unwanted advice and his controlling nature. Things are much better between us now. We all live and learn, don’t we?
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We do indeed Cathy, I’ve learned to keep quiet when in the past I might not have, but I hate arguments so turn a blind eye.
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Yes, I try not to speak much to my son at all as he takes everything I say as a criticism of him, even when it isn’t meant as such.
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Is he still living with you?
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Yes, but he’s made more bad decisions and we’ve asked him to move out by March 17. Although at this moment, he’s not a problem to be around. He just dropped out of his Massage Therapy School when all he had to do was show up for 20 days and do no more than 4 massages a day. I could strangle him, but I can’t force hm to go back. However, we can ask him to leave, so that’s what we’ve done.
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Frustrating. But sometimes you have to show tough love. I know that is not easy.
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No, it never is easy. Especially when you feel certain the same mistakes are going to be repeated. But heaven forbid I should give any advice! He would do just the opposite, so I keep my mouth closed.
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Walking through a gorge was a metaphor that day. You were hemmed in on all sides by advice-givers. I guess waiting to be asked is too much. I enjoy learning the stories of others–I’m delighted to be learning your stories–but the last thing I enjoy is pestering. Or being pestered. Or telling someone I don’t know how to live. Or being told by someone I don’t know how I should live. Sigh. That was such a trying time for you. I’d much rather have been shorn of company as well. Thank goodness, Cathy, for all the better days!
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I like that idea of the gorge as a metaphor for being hemmed in on all sides by advice-givers! You’re such a poet, Christopher. Yes, as I mentioned to Jude, I’ve been a relentless advice-giver in the past, especially to my children, but I try hard to keep my mouth closed now unless they ask me specifically for my advice. It’s hard to do! But it’s also very hard to be the one being advised, by people who, by the very nature of giving advice, assume you’re incapable of making your own decisions. Life is tough, and we can all be slow learners. 🙂 And yes, thank goodness for the better days, and for better company. 🙂
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You could have called your blog post the Great Calcium Rift!!!! My experience through work and family life is the more that one is exposed to unwanted advice the more resistant one is to listening to, considering and acting on that advice. In a book I am reading that discusses the LEAP technique of interacting with others (Listen, Empasize, Agree, Partner) a simple technique in the later stages of process, is to ask the person if they want to hear any suggestions or advice, before giving it. By then a mutual agreement on the issue may have been reached and the party with the issue may feel more comfortable hearing suggestions. if not, keep it to yourself.
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Yes, the Great Calcium Rift is perfect. 🙂 Yes, that LEAP sounds interesting; I’ll have to read that book too. Maybe I can learn a thing or two.
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Like Jude, I’d been wondering about your relationship with Susan, so it’s interesting to have the background. A shame it didn’t work out.
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Yes, it is a shame. Some people we just simply have trouble connecting with. I’m sure she felt the same about me.
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[…] Morocco: a short walk through Todra Gorge […]
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Aaah! This is also why I travel alone for any visit beyond a day or two. There are always people in these group tours (I had to take them to travel on safari around Africa so I had no choice, but once I spent 11 weeks on the back of the safari truck with people I came to LOATHE beyond all rational perspective – for example, there were these two married couples from New Zealand and guaranteed at the start of each and every communal meal, which was 3 x a day, one or the other or both thought it was hilarious to fart loudly. Their wives thought it was hilarious every time, too, and this went on for 11 weeks! Nightmare! The one wife was exactly the same as this man you barely met on the tour who felt he knew better how you should take care of yourself than you did, too!) who challenge your patience and strength, no matter how many people are on the bus. Unsolicited advice often is confused/mistaken for acceptable small talk among strangers it seems. Once in a while I don’t mind it, since I am sure I am the kind of person who no doubt ensures that everyone has the benefit of my or opinion, unfortunately, I do try in every group situation I am participating in, no matter where it is now, to be more mindful of the direction of the conversation and how my discourse can benefit or hurt the conversation or piss off the person I am talking to. I suppose the only way to ensure no one has a chance to give you advice is to, like you said, never take a group tour again, and/or never say anything about yourself when you are in such a situation, but how normal is that?
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Thanks for sharing your horrible experiences with group tours, Mona Lisa. I really must avoid them in the future at all costs. Even traveling with a friend is trying, even though I must admit I didn’t know Susan that well before we traveled together. The 11 weeks you spent with people on a safari sounds horrible; I’d never be able to stand being with a group for that long. Unless you really connect with a person or two on the trip, then it’s pure torture.
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The animals I was so lucky to see in the wild in Africa, all of which are for sure long gone, and an experience I could never replicate even if I had the money, was the saving grace of those group tours. There were a few awesome people I could connect with, too, though I am not in touch with any of them anymore, unfortunately, and not for lack of trying on my part, but like you, for that reason, I also prefer to travel alone no matter what, and only join a group when I have no choice! Stay safe!! Take care and hello to Mike!!!
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I’m sure seeing the animals was better than being with the humans on those long tours! At least you did meet some awesome people, but it is hard to stay in touch when people move out of your orbit. Take care and I’ll send your greetings to Mike!
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Indeed. Friendship cannot be one-sided. Take care and keep safe!
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I am just catching up now on all these wonderful responses!! Thank you! Yes, families are trying at the best of times, and I know my sister was jealous of me, but she is a very jealous person and I am not and never have been, thank God. It can be the most debilitating and unattractive of qualities. But since my dad has emotionally abandoned us with this awful new relationship which started a year after my mother died, my sister and I have found each other as friends, and that is what our mother always wanted for us. Of course I have no relationship with my dad now, but that is on him. His behaviour has been appalling at age 82, chasing after this woman from El Salvador who does not speak English and he does not speak Spanish, with his wallet open, to get her to like him so he is not alone. He has spent thousands and thousands on her and her family while telling my sister and I that he prefers her kids over us. It has been the most painful experience of being abandoned and it does not hurt any less my being 59 years old. I can love my dad from a distance, but I do not like him close up and after almost burning myself up with anger for the last year, I made the decision to stop that as I was the only one affected. I know he is safe re the virus through the odd chat now and again my sister has with him, but it makes me very sad that my dad is being so pathetic and foolish and so clearly being taken advantage of, at his age. But that is his path to walk and I have to make peace with the path I have to walk for myself. I wish I had someone close by, but I am grateful to have my friends I can still connect with via email and facebook. Yes, even dear Warwick, the closest thing to a companion I have in my life for male companionship now that my dad is out of the picture. Oh well! xxxxx You are so blessed with Mike and I hold him dear to my heart, right next to you! xxxx
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I had no idea about your dad and his awful new relationship. It must be very hurtful and frustrating to watch. At least the good thing is that you and your sister have become friends. How odd life can be at times. What is happening with your father sounds a bit similar to what you were describing with Warwick at one time, with the family he takes care of. I’m glad you and Warwick are good companions now; that warms my heart to hear. Thanks for holding Mike and I together in your heart. That means so much! Take care of yourself, Mona Lisa. 🙂
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Thank you for these kind words. You would not think at age 60 almost I would be feeling so abandoned by my dad, but apparently there is no age limit on your feelings when an adored parent suddenly abandons you for a stranger. I have not spoken to him for weeks, and when he calls my sister, it has never once been to see if she (or I) need anything even though we both lost our jobs (hopefully temporarily) over the coronavirus. Not once. My old dad would have asked before we even finished saying hello. Warwick has been a comfort to me, as he was adopted as you know, and he told me once he “never measured up” to his dad, because he is an artistic soul, and not the rugby-loving lad I guess he dad thought he would get. He taught me that you can create the family you want through friendship when the family you get let’s you down or makes you feel worthless. A very powerful lesson. Thank you again!
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My dad has never expressed any interest in me or my life for years, so I can’t imagine having to suddenly feel abandoned by a loving father. I wouldn’t know the meaning of that kind of relationship. Mine has been a long slow death of a relationship that was never very loving to begin with. I’m so glad Warwick is a comfort to you! Yes, creating a family through friendship often works, but there is not that blood bond that will always tie you together. It can never be quite the same, but at least a happy approximation.
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True words indeed. I wonder now if my relationship with my dad was ever loving, or if it was just thinly-veiled resentment which my mother was able to cover up. I don’t think I will ever know because that would just make things worse. I lost both my parents when my mother died 2 years ago, as well as my three oldest cats. It has been awful. My friends are everything now and I am so grateful to have them in my life, you and Mike so very dearly included 🙂 and I thank you so much for that xxxxxx keep safe!!!
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It looks might impressive and, as usual, your photographs do it justice.
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Thanks, Mari. It honestly was not that impressive at all! 🙂
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